Building Both Artistic and Networking Skills

🎙️ Podcast Show Notes Introduction

If I just get better… I’ll get more work.

That belief is everywhere in this industry.
 And it’s quietly exhausting a lot of really talented people.

In this episode, we’re breaking down one of the most persistent myths in intimacy work, and honestly, across the arts as a whole.

Because yes… your craft matters.
 But it’s not the whole picture.

We talk about what actually creates a sustainable career in a gig-based industry. The part no one teaches. The part that determines whether you keep getting hired or quietly get passed over.

From perfectionism and self-doubt…
To networking, finances, and follow-through…
To redefining what it means to be a “successful” artist…

This conversation pulls back the curtain on what’s really going on behind the scenes.

If you’ve ever questioned your talent because the gigs aren’t consistent…
This episode will give you a different lens to look through.

👂 What You’ll Learn in This Episode

•  Why being a highly skilled artist doesn’t automatically lead to more gigs 
•  The overlooked business and relationship skills that actually drive repeat work 
•  How perfectionism and “not good enough” thinking can stall your career 
•  What’s really happening during slow seasons—and how to respond without panic 
•  A practical strategy for turning your intimacy skillset into multiple income streams 

🔗 Resources & Links

• How to Become an Intimacy Professional Free Webinar
• Intimacy Directors and Coordinators Home Page
• How Aspiring Intimacy Professionals Can Build Their First Kit

Transcript

The Myth: “If I’m Good Enough, I’ll Get Gigs”

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Welcome everybody to the IDC podcast where intimacy professionals come to put their finger on the pulse of what is happening inside this crazy industry we are in. As always, my name is Jessica Steinrock. I am the CEO here at Intimacy Directors and Coordinators, and I will let my co-host introduce herself.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Hello. My name is Amanda Pulcini. I'm the director of the Intimacy Professional Accelerator Program at IDC. I use she her pronouns.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

And I know this is a podcast and you can't see it, but Amanda's hair looks incredible today. Gorgeous curls, very poppin'. 10 out of 10.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

I appreciate it. This is day three hair.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

And that's the goal. Okay. Well, so back to intimacy stuff. Today we're going to be talking about some of the myths that are in our industry and kind of busting some of those myths that we're seeing so that you all have a clear understanding of what a career as an intimacy professional looks like. And so today I really want us to focus in on this myth that most artists, and then this is also something I've seen across across artistry, not just an intimacy professional. So this is something I've seen with actors, with directors, producers, camera operators, you know, just a lot of artists in general, where there's kind of this misconception that if I become a better artist, if I really drill down and dig into my craft and work tirelessly on becoming the best artist I can be, then that's the kind of work that's ultimately going to equate to more gigs. And the reason that we're saying that this is a myth is that there is a whole other element to what it means to work in the arts industries beyond just being an incredible artist. And in fact, some of the best artists I know are struggling to get gigs because they struggle with some of the other skills like networking, taxes, payments, invoices, following up on those invoices, getting paid, the whole business side of the equation, which, you know, is not as much fun and glamorous and sometimes interesting as, you know, the artistry side, but is just as important. Amanda, is this something that you've seen as well? Because you have a career both as an intimacy coordinator and director and as an actor. You know, you've been working as a multi-hyphenite artist for many years.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Yeah, I and and when I started my professional career, I was very much in the mindset that, well, if I'm just good enough, I'm gonna work all the time. Work begets work. And so, so I just have to be good. And what and there is truth to that, right? You have to be extremely skilled, the things that you're doing. You have to keep want to continue to grow. You have to build your tool set to the things that you had spoken to before, Jessica. But one of the things that's really important to name is that there is not a whisper, but a deep shadow of perfectionism that comes over that idea of being good enough. And that's that can be really treacherous in the mindset of how I want to build and expand my career. And for me, has really kind of held me back in my ability to go, well, how can I expand my career? I think I'm good enough. I think I'm doing all of the things, but am I not good enough? And then I have self-doubt. And then that that continues to reflect in a very negative way what I'm bringing to the table.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Which I think also, you know, in turn makes it more difficult to invest in the career because it can be really disheartening, right? I mean, we live in this gig economy where, you know, for every four jobs you try to get, you might only get one. And maybe that's even optimistic, right? And yeah, 25% is a really nice that's that's a really nice uh percentage there. When I was saying that, I was like, wow, 25%, that's actually um but right, and it can be so disheartening in this industry, and then especially once it starts to take a toll on your mental health and your perception of your own skills. Because again, you're totally right that like it you still need to be good at the job. That's not, you know, it's not one or the other. But I think so often, you know, there's this feeling of, oh, I'm not getting work. That must mean that I'm not skilled enough as an artist when actually there might just be this whole other bucket of, you know, how to actually get the jobs, how to actually keep the jobs, that, you know, or even tax

Perfectionism, Self-Doubt, and Career Stalls

SPEAKER_00 4:28

planning, financial planning, you know, budgeting in the fact that there are going to be highs and lows, you know, in the job market. Amanda, was there a moment where in your earlier career where you saw that having those skills in either networking or business or, you know, financial planning for highs and lows, where those moments really came to fruition for you? And you're like, oh, that skill actually turned out to be way more useful than I thought it was going to be going into it.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Yes. I I think uh, you know, one of the I I have two thoughts on this. One of the things is that, you know, certainly in undergrad, we weren't taught a lot of those life skills that were really, really important to understand how to be a balanced artist in this world, in this economy. So I didn't have that. So once I started to learn that, that was extremely helpful. And I think IDC does a really great job, specifically in phase three, about giving you those kind of life skills of building that foundation and seeing yourself as a holistic person that is funneled into your artistry. But the the thing that shifted for me is once I understood that those are the tools that I need, at first it was kind of like driving stick shift for me. Okay, so I have to do this thing, right? And then I gotta go to this party and meet this person, and then I gotta file my taxes this way. And eventually when I started to release the just checklist of things and finding how am I approaching this in the way that feels as joyful as doing taxes can be, or as as joyful as even sometimes going to a party when you don't want to go to a party or an opening night event. Like, how can I shift my mindset where it's not the things that I should do as a checklist, but how am I showing up to that opening night party where I feel like, yeah, it's just me talking to people or starting conversations or or leading with curiosity that's opening up dialogue and conversation that is eventually going to lead up to a very easeful and natural way of me saying, yeah, you know, some one of the other things I do is I'm an intimacy director and I loved the intimacy in this show that you all just did. Or, oh, I know this person and I know their work and I really love their work and I want to be involved in projects. When I started to feel that I was leading from a sense of true joy and curiosity and passion for the work instead of the should be schmoozing or need to be doing all of these things,

The Hidden Skills No One Teaches (But Everyone Needs)

SPEAKER_01 7:00

things started to feel a lot more aligned and easeful in that process. And then gigs started coming more and I started making more connections or started finding my footing a lot more easily.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

I mean, that that idea of easeful, I think, is is really I think you hit the nail on the head there because when I think about, you know, the times where I questioned whether or not this career was for me, it wasn't because I didn't love doing the work anymore. It was never because I didn't love telling stories of intimacy and because I didn't love, you know, choreographing or talking about consent, or the times that I questioned, is this actually the right career for me were from the times where things didn't feel easeful, largely because I felt, you know, just so much panic and insecurity about whether or not the next gig was gonna come and when the next gig wasn't gonna come. And I found it very difficult to like trust in the work and trust in the economy and trust in myself in in and finding any ease in the unknown. I felt a lot of unease when it came to that networking piece and putting myself out there. And well, what if they don't like me and like personalizing all of that? Yeah, you know, right? Oh, if they don't hire me, it's because they don't like who I am as a human. Stabbed me in the heart right there. Yes. And then, you know, it wasn't useful because I'm thinking, you know, in my financial strategy, I'm trying to also make sure that I have, you know, four to six months of living expenses, you know, in my bank account and making sure that I have enough money to not only pay for those expenses, but then to try to build up that, you know, savings so that if I'm in a situation where there is no work, I'm not, you know, I'm not in a bad situation. But then I'm also like, okay, but if I pull from that ever, then that would be bad. And so all of that like financial stress, you know, on top of it just made the business side of being a gig and freelance worker not feel easeful, which then made it really difficult to like root into the joy and passion and reasons why I became an intimacy professional in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

I gotta, I, I gotta ask. So, you know, for me, especially when it comes to finances or maybe not working enough and feeling not good enough, there's so much shame that comes with a lot of that, right? It was the personalization piece, right? Exactly. So when you're when you personally, Jessica, are in that in that place of like, oh, I I'm I have to pull from my savings, or I don't have savings to pull from and I'm not getting gigs, or that that fear and that panic starts to to to come in in those those famine times. How what are you doing to get yourself at least maybe geared up or feel like you can take a step into the, okay, this is how I get myself back on the horse and and how I step back into the networking or putting myself out there again?

SPEAKER_00 9:55

I think, you know, I'm gonna talk from a place of not like food insecurity or not, you know, not in a space of financially struggling in that specific moment, but from a place more of just like not a lot of work and, you know, and then knowing that, like, okay, I need to get some money in the door. I think a lot about the ways in which the skills that I have as an intimacy professional can be packaged in a lot of different ways to equate to income. And I think that that is so

Navigating Slow Seasons Without Losing Momentum

SPEAKER_00 10:26

powerful because as intimacy professionals, we have these incredible skills in communication, in consent. You know, many of us are born educators because this work is so new that when you walk onto a set, you're often educating all of the crew, all of the actors, the director, you're, you know, working with them collaboratively. We're thinking about consent differently than a lot of other positions. And I what I like to do is spend, you know, maybe an hour, put it, set a timer, you know, something like that. And I jot down every single way I could use those skills to make money. Oh. And that, yeah, and it's, you know, because I I like to just so there's the one box, which is getting a gig, being the intimacy director on a show. But that's not always the most reliable way to leverage those skills because you never know what the show is, who's gonna be there. Does the show even need intimacy? Maybe you have a great relationship with a theater, but they're doing a show that doesn't need an intimacy director. And so they're like, well, for the next three months, we actually don't need your services. And then you're like, well, okay, what, you know, what next? And we just don't have a lot of control about this. And I've talked with my my husband, who's also a fight director about this, you know, and similarly, he's like, yeah, it's tough to know when the gigs are gonna happen or when I'm gonna be right for the part, you know, maybe this show doesn't have any person that would be a good, you know, role for him to play. But it doesn't mean that those skills lack value. And so spending some time thinking about, okay, could you could you lead an online course? Could you talk to, you know, do some speaking at a university? Could I take that, those skills and support at uh a local social work group? You know, maybe there's some support needed there. Maybe I could do a consent workshop for a place outside of the theater or outside of TV and film, you know, and that's that's where you just rift for an hour. You write down the craziest, most preposterous idea. And that also could include packaging intimacy ideas in different ways. That could also be like, I have this piece of furniture that I'm willing to sell or part with, right? Like anything that could put money into the bank account. And then once you have a list of like 50 ideas, that's then where I kind of start to piece it out and say, okay, well, what would be the easiest and fastest? What ideas would bring me the most joy? What ideas have the most, you know, return on investment for effort? And that's kind of then how I think about my skills as an intimacy professional, not just being useful for working as an intimacy coordinator on a project, though, of course, that's the primary effort. Like that's, you know, always going to be where I'm headed personally. But then I think about all of the other ways in which my education can continue to offer me support in other aspects of my life.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Yeah, and I'm hearing this theme of being a multi-hyphenite artist coming up in what you're saying too, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a multi-hyphenite artist, where it could be just being a well-rounded human and using these skills too is massively important. I think that there is,

Expanding Your Income Beyond Set Work

SPEAKER_01 13:31

you know, even when I was going through my training, I had a certain expectation of great, I hope that 50% of my income is gonna come from being an intimacy coordinator. And sometimes that doesn't happen. Sometimes there are years where that's not where my income is is being driven from, right? So that's where I rely on my work as an actor or my work as a teacher, so on and so forth. It's really important to diversify your portfolio.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Fancy language out of here.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

But it's true. It's true. I met with a financial advisor, I know finances.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

But you're, I mean, you're you're spot on, right? That like having this kind of diversity, especially in a gig worker. And and I I think there are so many benefits to having this kind of like gig-to-gig lifestyle because there's so much freedom and excitement and new opportunities and new projects, and you kind of never know what's coming down. But, you know, over the course of time, you kind of trust that there will always be more, and you can kind of build up some systems to create support. But I think, especially when we're you're, you know, when we're in those earlier phases, one of the best things you can do is build up a cushion so that, you know, let's say there's a month or two months where nothing seems to be on the calendar, then you can spend that month or two months instead of making that list of here's all the different ways, you know, relying on that cushion that you built and spending those two months deepening the craft or deepening, you know, the business side of things, or or taking a class in networking, you know, which is a valuable skill, right? There's some people think it's like, oh, that person's a people person. They're just naturally good. And in reality, they've probably just had more practice because it's a skill that can be learned and practiced, and it can some, it can be something that you actually get better at. And I think people like to be like, oh, I just, I'm just not good at it. That's just not me. But every skill always, any new skill always starts out kind of rocky until you get another bunch of practice under your wings.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Yeah, the uh you know, there's there's a sense of urgency when you're learning something new, right? Because this there's passion there, there's excitement. This is something that that you stumbled upon, you're like, well, this changed my life. I've gotta do it. I've gotta go. Well, maybe I'm speaking for me, and maybe this is my everyday voice.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Um, I gotta go 100 miles an hour. Is that your inner dialogue?

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Is that how your inner dialogue sounds like always yelling? Yes. It's I don't have anxiety. That's fine. Um me neither. I mean, me neither. But I think that that that that urgency of you know wanting to get out there and do the thing, I have to constantly remind myself that I my goal is to have a sustainable career as an artist. And I have I have burnt myself out so many times with that that rush of urgency and perfectionism, of wanting to get all the gigs and do all the things. And what I've not let happen

Boundaries, Risk Assessment, and Long-Term Trust

SPEAKER_01 16:47

was let the dust kind of settle on my learning and allow myself space to go, oh, okay. I'm in a moment of pause or I'm in a moment of maybe emptiness that feels a little nerve-wracking in this moment. How am I actually checking in with myself to go? What has gone really well in the gigs that I have taken or the training that I've done? What feels like it's really solid for me? And where do I want to grow? And sometimes that growth actually comes in. I need to take a step away from training and go on a hike. Yeah. Or like do something completely different. And you'd be amazed at the things that start to pop up for you that will become second nature when you're doing things that don't feel solely focused on the work. I just encourage, I'd like to encourage that as a part of I get hired more often when I come to this work as a human being and not an intimacy robot.

unknown 17:46

Right?

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Like it's it is the reason that I get hired time and time again because I am so willing to say, oh, I don't know what I don't know. And I want to go back to that thing. And I'm not willing to push push forward and try to get it all perfect and right. And that is, I don't know, that has been valuable in the sustainability of my career.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

And I'm also hearing you talk a lot about some of the concepts around risk assessment that we talk a lot about, right? That this idea of a long-term sustainable career also requires, you know, a substantial amount of risk assessment and self-awareness. Because if, you know, we've seen this happen many times where someone takes an opportunity that's maybe beyond their capacity, whether that's their capacity skill-wise or capacity time-wise, and then that it doesn't, it doesn't go well because of the risk assessment. Like I had, I was actually on a call just maybe three or four days ago with somebody who said they were talking with an intimacy professional for a project and they tried, and they were trying multiple intimacy professionals and feeling ghosted that they had this gig and they were trying to give it to somebody and they felt ghosted by these intimacy professionals who were not responding to emails, were not getting back in timely remarks, that you know, that they they right, those those business skills were were lacking, you know. And I'm thinking about kind of also that that risk assessment piece, you know, and I I don't know who these folks were or or who this person was reaching out to, right? But I'm thinking about how often it can feel like, oh, I have to say yes to everything. But if you get in a situation where you've said yes to somebody and then ghost them, well, now you've lost all of the future opportunities that could possibly have come from that relationship. Or if you say yes to someone on a project you're not ready for, and then you know that that project doesn't go well or you're above, you know, I feel what's above your head? I don't know, what's the word I'm looking for? Out of your depth. Your skill set. Yeah, you're out of your depth. Yes, something like that. Right. And that happens, you know, that can also then potentially burn what could have been a longer-term relationship if you had said, hey, this project isn't right for me now. Let's talk about some other options. You, you know, here's a different person I know, or da-da-da-da. And that kind of that can feel really scary to say no to an opportunity. But ultimately, that builds so much trust. It builds, you know, trust from the employer that you're gonna be exactly who you say you're going to be. And more often than not, they do return back to the folks that they've had those kinds of honest conversations with. And then potentially

Building a Sustainable Career (Final Advice & Takeaways)

SPEAKER_00 20:22

the relationship with someone else you've passed the work to, they might pass work back to you. And that kind of symbiotic connection inside this community, I think, is really what can build such powerful connections over time for that sustainability piece.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It it just because I it's been coming up in my life so much recently, it's that phrase that direct is kind, right? And being direct about your what you're bringing to the table, your monetary value in where you are in your career, or what is sustainable for the career of intimacy directors and coordinators across the board and what you're upholding, being your your availability, your capacity to take that, all of that. I'll tell you time and time again, I've I've had those conversations and been asked back because I've been able to do to clearly communicate and directly communicate, and people so much appreciate it because you're you're modeling the efficiency of the role in that as well. You're modeling the the way that you're going to show up onset or in that rehearsal. And people are floored by it because a lot of people don't know how to speak directly and efficiently.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Well, and I think we've come right back to the main point of this myth, right? That if I am the best artist I can possibly be, then that means I'm gonna get gigs. When in reality, you know, artistry is one side of that coin, and it's an important side of that coin. Do not get me wrong. Being a skilled professional at the type of professional you want to be is incredibly important. But there are so much on the other side that, you know, there are some people who are incredible artists who I personally would not like to work with again because they really lacked some of the business side skills that made it very difficult to connect with them and work with them. And I see this happen over and over and over again. And so when it comes to building long-term sustainability in a gig economy, you know, making sure that you're not just training the artistry side, but also training that professional side can just, you know, extend the lifetime of a career for so much longer.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

I think, you know, this is this is a moment where I would really love to uplift. It's uh something that we just added to the accelerator program from our summit last year. Samantha Kaufman did this awesome presentation on how to stand out and land gigs. And one of the things that I really loved about Samantha's approach to it was being really clear and specific about the things that you do want and you do want to pursue in that. And that shows, has shown at least to me, as people, as somebody who has hired people before, but been on the other side of looking for gigs. It's really important to reach out with a sense of clarity on what you're bringing to the table. This, I guess, this is this is the tips and tricks portion of our podcast, right? You're the tip and trick of the man and great. And really from Samantha Kaufman. I'm gonna give credit where credit is due. But but but we do talk about this at length in our third phase in the accelerator program. But being really clear about what you're bringing to the table, your and that means your personality, not just this is what an intimacy professional does. This is what I and my Amanda is my artistry brings, which is going to be very different than Jessica and her artistry and Claire and her artistry and Renee and her artistry, right? This is what I'm bringing to the table. You're doing this project, and I'm super excited about that. Or this is an all for me. If every time I get in an all-female indie film set, I'm like, this is amazing. This is these are my people. I love this. Are we talking about a simulated sex in the middle of the woods with a rabbit head on you? Like, I'm all about this. Sure. My jam. I love doing this stuff, right? And for some other intimacy professionals, that's not. And so when you're reaching out, be bold, right? Ask the thing. Ask the thing that you want to be involved in. That helps you define who you are. That helps help give people a sense of who you are. So they will think about you the next time they're like, you know, we don't have a rabbit head, but we do have a goat head. And that kind of reminds me of Amanda. And her love of doing this in the middle of the woods at 2 a.m., right? Like that kind, that kind of stuff, being that bold and being that clear about who you are and what you're bringing will help you stand out, will help you land gigs. But you've got to pers you've got to pursue that, right? You've got and do it unabashedly because you should. You should be very proud of who you are and what you like to do.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Absolutely. And I mean, I if if goatheads is your thing, goatheads. Sorry, I just had to get one more in. No, in in in true, true reality, like when we were building the accelerator program, you know, a couple of years ago, and I was thinking about what did I feel my personal experience was when it came to learning and training, both as an intimacy professional, but also in other artistic aspects of my life. It was so important to me that the program we created was going to have a good amount of information about this side of the coin that gets so often overlooked, misunderstood, avoided, uh, and sometimes avoided out of boredom, sometimes avoided out of confusion, and sometimes avoided out of fear. And that it's so important that if we were actually going to support people in entering this field and creating impact successfully as intimacy professionals, that this is something we needed to look at as a community and say, hey, this piece is just as important as the other pieces. And we can't, we can't shove it under the rug because that's going to do a disservice, not just, you know, to the folks who are entering the field or are training with us, but also to the industry's understanding of how intimacy professionals work and what it looks like to pay intimacy professionals and having those solid business practices continues to really create ripple effects for the benefit of our colleagues, our students, our industry. All right, Amanda, as we're getting close to time, let's wrap it up with one final piece of advice tip. If someone is, you know, wanting to build a sustainable career as an intimacy professional, making intimacy work a part of how they make their money, live their life, create their impact. What is like one business side thing that you're that you would say, do not overlook this piece?

SPEAKER_01 26:44

The business side of it, and and I it's gonna sound non-business, but I promise I'm gonna wrap it to business, is defining your artistry and why that's so important for your business. And I've said this already, but it clarifies who you are and what you're bringing. So this is this is developing your elevator pitch, essentially, who you are and what is what makes you write for these projects. And the fun part about my tip and trick is that means, and Jessica is gonna love this, you get to consume a lot of media, you get to watch a lot of movies and TV, you get to go to theater, you get to listen to audiobooks, and you get to go, ooh, what stories light my fire? When I watch that story, do I wanna be involved in in like a sinners, a Ryan Kugler Sinners type story, where I am mashing up these two genres together to create something incredible. That lights me on fire. Why does that light me on fire? And how can I put that as a part of my, as a part of my elevator pitch? I'm really good at understanding culture and folklore and bringing it into a very modern sensibility and understanding how that translates into the human body and and choreography and connection that feels really authentic and exciting. That's what I bring as an artist, and that's why I'm reaching out to you, particular production, about the story that you're telling. So I'm being clear about who I am as an artist, and I'm being specific about the production that I'm I'm reaching out to. That doesn't that does one more thing, which also doesn't overload you to feel like you have to submit yourself for every single thing that has any level of intimacy in it. You're focusing your time and efforts in that. And that's really important for balance. And again, that S-word, sustainability. What about you, Jessica? What's what's your parting thought?

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Yeah, I think my parting thought is to root into or to find and figure out what you can root into in those moments where things are not going in the way you hope. That there will always be those moments where you're not gonna get a gig to your inbox, someone's gonna say no to you, maybe it feels hopeless. And those hopelessness uh can be really it can be really scary, can be really defeating, and also will probably happen again in the future. But where do you find the trust in yourself, the trust in your skill sets, building the support systems you need so that that hopelessness doesn't equate, you know, to fear? And that, you know, figuring out how that balance looks for you and your personal circumstances and your and your sustainability can really mean then that, you know, a career is a lifetime and that you have a lot of time to figure out how that career is gonna look for you. And so the most ease you can bring to that is going to create the longest amount of stability. That's at least in my experience.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Can I just say we're talking about a lot of S words here? Sustainability, stability, but that support. Support. I think that that I the one more myth that I just want to bust is that you cannot ask questions when you are once once you have gone through a training, or even as you're going through the training, because you think you should know better. I am constantly reaching out to to my community, going, I I know that we talked about this at one time, or I'm sure I watched a lesson on this and it still doesn't make sense to me. Remember, we are here to support one another. Or those that's my goal. I'll speak for myself. I am here to support and I am going to seek support. So never don't let shame be a part of that, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Ask, ask support. Well, and I'll close us out on this note because because this podcast is one of those areas of support that we're really trying to build here at IDC. You know, make sure that we're we're creating the support that our our community wants and needs and having conversations about things like finances and the business side of this work. So if there are other topics or other questions that you want to see us talk about on this podcast, please, please, please let us know. Make sure to, you know, share, subscribe other S words. Hello. Share, subscribe, and follow along with the IDC podcast. And just thank you all so much for your time, your support, and for listening.