Intimacy Directors and Coordinators Podcast
Where Intimacy Professionals in TV, Film, and Theatre come together to keep their finger on the pulse of the industry.
Intimacy Directors and Coordinators Podcast
Don't Overstep
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🎙️ Podcast Show Notes Introduction
The fastest way to lose trust on a production is not by making a mistake, it's by forgetting where your role begins and ends. In this episode, Jessica Steinrock and Claire Warden share honest stories from their own careers about the times they overstepped, why it happened, and what those experiences taught them. Together, they explore the pressure many new intimacy professionals feel to constantly prove their value, the temptation to say yes to everything, and why true confidence comes from serving the production instead of your ego. If you have ever wondered whether you were doing too much, stepping into someone else's lane, or struggling to balance confidence with collaboration, this episode will give you practical tools to navigate those moments with greater clarity.
👂 What to Listen For
- Why the pressure to prove your value can lead even the best intimacy professionals to overstep their role
- How quiet confidence allows you to support a production without needing constant validation
- The simple questions to ask before answering requests that may fall outside your responsibilities
- Why saying "I don't know, but let's figure it out" builds more trust than pretending to have every answer
- Three practical habits that will help you stay grounded, collaborative, and effective on every production
🔗 Important Links
- 📧 Email: info@idcprofessionals.com
- 🎓 How to Become an Intimacy Professional Free Webinar
- 🌐 Intimacy Directors and Coordinators Home Page
- 🛠️ How Aspiring Intimacy Professionals Can Build Their First Kit
The Mistake of Overstepping Your Role
SPEAKER_00Welcome back to the Intimacy Directors and Coordinator podcast, where intimacy professionals come to put their finger on the pulse of the industry. My name is Jessica Steinrock, and I am the CEO here at Intimacy Directors and Coordinators.
SPEAKER_03Well, hello, everybody. My name is Claire Warden. I'm the director of advanced training here at IDC. It is lovely to be back with you again.
SPEAKER_00Well, and today we're talking about something that has happened to both of us professionally, and it's a mistake that we were going to share pretty vulnerably about how it's impacted our lives and our careers in the hopes that you don't make some of the same mistakes we did. And that mistake is clear.
SPEAKER_01Know what your job isn't, and don't do it.
SPEAKER_00Basically, we're going to talk about overstepping today. And what we've seen a lot of times is that aspiring intimacy professionals, folks who are newer to the position, often when they get onto a new project, there's this drive to like prove their value and worth. And this happens oftentimes by accidentally overreaching and overstepping. And what we've seen is that seasoned and more confident intimacy professionals are different because they are able to relinquish their ties to their ego and how they are personally being viewed on the project and instead focus on how they can use their role to best serve the needs of the project in front of them. And this can happen in so many different ways. And this is a mistake that has, again, as I said in the beginning, happened to both of us very often. And it can happen for a lot of different reasons.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I think I'm so glad that we're getting to talk about this because I'm like, let us make the mistakes we already did and share it with you so you could be more advanced. And I think I really want to honor this both in myself, but in everybody out there. I think actually, both when you're new and really trying to find yourself and what you do on set or in the room, and there's a lot of that really need to be seen to be fulfilling my value, where it is still in some rooms in question. But I also think some of the unintended consequences of being a really competent ID and IC is that you bring with you a sense of safety and
Why Great Intimacy Professionals Know Their Lane
SPEAKER_03security and groundedness. Like we are really clear in our communication, we make people feel heard, we we ask for and we disseminate information that actually helps people be better prepared for their job that day and look better, right? And these things have been really missing from our industry. And it makes sense that once people experience that, they want more of it and they want it throughout all the departments. And so sometimes just by being really good at what you're doing, what you're there to do, people are going to ask you to do more than that. And for us, we have to be really clear on what the lines of our role is and and what it isn't, so that we can I think there's a couple of things that we should talk about in this. But A, it's about for me, professional respect. And really, like as much as in the same way as we want people to allow us to do our job and all of our job, we also don't want to step on the toes of other people's jobs. But it's also about like maintaining for us some efficiency in the use of our energy, right? It's tiring enough doing the role, and then if we're doing stuff above and beyond our role in the day, that's energy and effort that we don't need to be expending.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think I'm thinking back to times where I've looked back and been like, Jessica, that probably wasn't the best choice. And a lot of them stemmed actually from like really simple projects, projects that maybe I was brought on
The Pressure to Prove You're Worth Hiring
SPEAKER_00for, you know, maybe uh even just as simple as a kiss scene is one example that I'm thinking of. And it was just a kiss. It was younger actors and they wanted to have an intimacy coordinator there. And I remember it was earlier on in my career, and I just felt this need to like be present in everything. And I kind of turned into like, you know, the joking helicopter intimacy coordinator, you know, stepping in almost a little too often, double checking, because I was so afraid that if I was standing on the sidelines watching or, you know, being available, that that wasn't like quote unquote enough. I wasn't doing enough. And so then people were going to see me and think, oh, the intimacy coordinator really wasn't needed for this scene. They really don't need to be here. When in reality, all of that prep work and trust work that I'd done with the actors ahead of time, with the director ahead of time, that was just all coming to fruition in an incredibly smooth sailing scene that if I had just let sail smoothly, would have actually been better for the project as a whole. And sure, maybe there was someone else on set who would have looked over and been like, oh, the intimacy coordinator's not doing anything. But that's not the opinion that matters. What matters is, am I doing the job right? And am I doing the job to the best of my ability and in service of what the production actually means.
SPEAKER_03I love that. I love that noticing of like, it doesn't matter what they think. Let's focus on what I'm doing. And that idea of that kind of what I sometimes see are what I think a lot of outside people see our work is as kind of like an iceberg, right? They see that very top 10, 15% of the work we do, which is when we're on set and they're looking at us and we're checking in and we're giving a couple of suggestions if asked, and we're sharing mints and we're making sure garments are working. But the enormous amount that we've done before to prep for that sets us up to be able to sometimes just hold the space. And I think it can be hard sometimes to trust that that is enough. That if you really are working from a place of like your own managed nervous system, groundedness, trust in your own competence, really prepared well. I sometimes it can be hard to trust that just your body being in the space makes enough of the difference.
SPEAKER_00And knowing that you're not often gonna get the validation that we often seek, right? The gold star, the A, the thank you so much. Like, you know, and sometimes that happens, right? The actors come over and say, Oh, thank you so much for your incredible work today. It really like it was different than any other scene I've ever done. And and those moments are beautiful and wonderful. But I mean, and maybe for the best, they're actually becoming a little bit different because actors now have those experiences more often. So it's a little bit less revolutionary. Still very revolutionary, don't get me wrong. But realizing
Building Quiet Confidence Without External Validation
SPEAKER_00that I can't tie my sense of did I do a good job to that external validation has been a really key part in my own growth as a professional, in that kind of quiet confidence that you have to have on set as a really competent IC.
SPEAKER_03I'm really interested, Jess. How did you do that? Do you do you have thoughts of like, how do you get? Because I say that a lot, and people are like, okay, so what, just be confident, trust. Like, you know, these are things that we really have to build. But you're so right. Like, I want to help people, I want to make them feel better. It feels good when I'm valued and important. It feels good to be part of the conversation. I I belong, especially, I think, is an idea and I see when you're a department of one, it can be a very lonely job. And so to get a sense of belonging, to get a sense of validation by being in more conversations or having more people consult you really helps to ease that. But you're right, we have to be really diligent about that. How did you what happened to help you hold on to that sense of confidence or trust in yourself?
SPEAKER_00A lot of therapy. Yeah, those are therapy. I know it's uh I was just, but it's true. Like the, I mean, even the term quiet confidence is a term that my therapist offered to me that has been really helpful because I I love external validation. I mean, who doesn't? I was a straight A kid, I was a gold star kid. I even love getting Starbucks points because the little points, you know, I love a point. And so those kinds of systems have always fed my my little dopamine receptors and it feels really good, but it has backfired in so many different ways. And so I've spent a lot of time kind of unpacking why I feel this drive for uh external validation and why it's so hard for me. And like something I've talked a lot about, you know, just in my own personal growth journey is this fear that if I think, you know, this objective truth is one thing, you know, I say, look, that that card is blue, um, but everybody is looking at the same card and they're like, it's a red card. Then am I just this fool? And so I'm looking to say, hey, is that a blue card? Is that a blue card? Is that a blue card? When I know it's a blue card because I'm seeing it as a blue card. And as I get new information, I might understand how other people are seeing it differently than I do, but that doesn't invalidate my own trust in that it is a blue card. And it's a really uncomfortable thing to sit with because the truth is someone might say, I disagree with that or I think that, or right, there might be a crew member on set that thinks the intimacy coordinator isn't doing anything. And you just have to be okay with it. And it's so difficult. And I find that practicing it in all other aspects of my life has helped me incorporate it, you know, better as an intimacy coordinator. But that quiet confidence and ability to kind of reflect and seek evidence that is inside as opposed to outside has been a really useful daily practice that I'm still practicing. Let's be clear.
SPEAKER_01It's never done, is it?
SPEAKER_00It's never done. And having a therapist help me through that has been really, uh, really supportive.
SPEAKER_03That's great. And reflecting on kind of my particular journey as well. And and I think from my point of view, being of service or or helping other people became a really deeply entrenched value pathway for me. And so having to, and it may means I got really good at it because that was where I sought my personal worth and validation from. But being able to separate that a little bit, and yes, I can still get satisfaction from bringing help and support and holding space. But the place, and you said this earlier, the place to get the personal Claire validation as opposed to IC role validation is not actually from those people I'm working with there. It is from my community, it is from my colleagues, it is from my family, it is when I, you know, reach out and text you and be like, hey, just wanted to share.
SPEAKER_02This happened, but I fixed it. Or like, hey, you remember that difficult conversation? We're good now.
SPEAKER_03And to really like be really clear about what you are looking for out of this work, and in what baskets the uh the the specific satisfaction, fulfillment, validation, ego, calming aspects of it really need to live to allow you to be to be really clear about the actions you take on a set.
What Really Happens When You Overstep
SPEAKER_00Well, because let's be honest, too. Like, what are what are some of the ramifications of overstepping? Like when an intimacy director or an intimacy coordinator does, even with the best intentions, crosses their lane, oversteps. What are some of the things that happen that you've seen happen on set or on stage?
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah, and and it's so right. It is so almost always with a good intention, right? You are trying to make everybody's day better, or you're being bombarded with questions from all over the place because everyone's figured out that you're actually the one that has a lot of information. So I've got costumes and I've got special effects here, and I've got props over here, and then I've got the DP over here, and I've got the And they're not clear on what your lane is. Right. They don't know. You're right, they don't quite know yet. I've certainly been in situations where, you know, I've I have a very good, clear conversations with the director, with the actor, and and the crew, and the because we it was a it was a movie that we were working on, and a lot of elements, so a lot of of departments all involved in our shots. There were quite a lot of special effects, there were quite a lot of you know big filming aspects. And I'd really made sure to make personal connections with each of these departments and make myself available for questions. But it did kind of start to get a little bit much where and our director, gorgeous man, but one of those people that would have an idea, be really clear on it, and then get a better idea and change his mind as we were going in. And also, it was a very busy film, so he wasn't always available to everybody. So I think a lot of people coming and asking what are actually creative decisions, even small things, even like you know, costume coming and being like, hey, which are we is is there is she starting in the robe or is she not starting in the robe? Like, and I think for me having to be, and if I make a decision, right? If I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, she's starting in the robe, and I'm doing that because I think that's the best idea. That's gonna be easiest for the character or us all, or I just kind of think that's what we talked about. Then we get to set, we get ready to shoot, and then our director's like, wait a minute, what what's this robe? This we talked about no robe, and now the actor has got comfortable with the idea of starting in the robe. Costumes are all right, they're like, no, no, no, it's not the robe. We decided it was, you know, something or whatever's under the robe, but the actor doesn't have that picture underwear under the robe because they thought they were staying in the robe because the picture underwear is now on the truck, and that so now costumes are getting yelled at because they don't have the right stuff. The actor's now feeling like, did I do something wrong? The director is annoyed. We now have to wait for some our poor costume person on the track to get this panicked call and to rush over. Everyone's being like, Why are we going? And it's all because I didn't get really clear with myself of okay, is this did our director say yes to this? Or is this some or am I sure? And and who else is involved? So great, this is a costume scene, this is definitely a direct thing, and it's an actor thing. So rather, it would be easier to just give an answer, but actually the right thing is to go, let me double check that. Do you want to come with me and we'll go find our director and we'll ask them? Or this is what I understand, but I do want to just double check before because I know we've gone back and forth. So it's really, it's that kind of real discipline of being really clear where is the answer I'm about to give come from. If it came just from me, and as brilliant as we may be in our creative ideas and suggestions, if it's a creative idea that is actually just coming from me, that's not really my place to give. Now, I may go to the director and be like, hey, here's a the creative question on the table. And they might go, What do you think? And I'll be like, here's my suggestion. They'll go, do that. That's great. But we've got to have that conversation first. And I think that, and it's just tiny little things like this that can have a knock-on effect, especially when you're in a process that is moving fast, you've got a lot of people that are all trying to get their day, or we're we're, you know, we're behind in our rehearsal process, we're going into tech and we're still trying to figure stuff out. So that can, I think that's uh definitely something that's happened with me a lot. And again, through a good intention.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03But it's a it's a discipline we have to really hone, I think.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that finding how and when to give, particularly that creative insight, I think has been such an interesting journey. And it's so different from project to project and group to group because as intimacy coordinators and intimacy directors, we spend so much time dissecting, analyzing, working with movement techniques, being really clear about how to make this moment happen on stage or on screen, so that we are the most, you know, fluent in those movement practices and those storytelling. Yet there are also times where that fluency is not required or needed. And even though we're like, oh, I really want
Navigating Creative Collaboration Without Taking Over
SPEAKER_00to share this, if that's not being looked for in that moment, then that can actually be overstepping in the role, even though you have to ultimately be prepared to do it no matter what. And that, like, that dynamic listening can be so tricky, especially given the, you know, uh infinite number of personalities that we might be working with on, you know, a variety of different projects. So there is like no one way to actually like guarantee, oh, this is what is always gonna work, or this is the kind of input that an intimacy coordinator is always going to give on a project.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I think it can be tricky because it is different from project to project, and it's sometimes different throughout the life of the project. Like then you might actually like people might want you to give more, and your director might be like, just you you figure that out, right? As you get further into the project and they've started to trust you. So it it really is like there, you can never know. And it's, I think I'm thinking about okay, so how do how do I handle that? And I think it is like really clear laying out of what you're there to do at the first place. Like in my first conversations, I'll always name, you know, I am here with a director. I'm here to support you, help facilitate that conversation, and to advocate for the actors. But talk to me about how you work, how you might work in this project, what things you're not sure about how it's gonna work. How do we work together? Because sometimes a director, and I find this more and more in theater now, as directors are starting to go, like, okay, Claire has it, go choreograph the scene. And I'm like, Whoa, no, that's not my job. As much as I'm like, I could do that, I might enjoy that. I might even do it better than that director. But that's not what I'm no, but that's not what I'm there for. And so it is like helping them to understand actually, I'm not here to take over that role. And if that is something you want, we have to be really clear that, okay, if you literally want to hand rehearsal and leave, which I've more and more of my mentees are kind of coming to me, being like, the director keeps leaving. What do I do? And that's a wonderful sign of trust that they've given you. But I think it's really important for us to be clear about, okay, I'll I'll help us put something together. But let's just be really clear that when you come back and look at it, we need time because it might not exactly align with what you were thinking. Or, and that can be helpful. Sometimes directors won't need to see something and then go, okay, like that bit, change that bit, shift that. That's actually not what we were talking about. The story's changed now to here. So that's an okay way of working, but I think we have to be really clear in that when you come back, if you're like, I hate it, we have time to change it. Yeah, that's an extreme, and hopefully they'll never say that. But you know, if they're like, okay, great, but actually, as of yesterday, we had this amazing cast discussion, and then we've now realized that this story point's more important, so we want to bring this out here, you know, that that you can do that, but it's not, it shouldn't be the final version because that's for the director to help home. And
Repairing Mistakes and Modeling Collaboration
SPEAKER_03it's really about that clear communication. I was having a conversation with someone a while ago, first time they'd worked with an IC, and they'd called me and be like, uh I don't know what to do because it the communication wasn't good, and I felt like I couldn't do what I wanted to do, but I didn't want to say anything against the IC because I don't want to look like I'm against consent. And I'm like, I get it. Like people still don't quite know how to how to navigate working with this new role in an unfamiliar way. And so I think it's also our job to say, hey, come, let's just check in, actually. I realize I I answered this question and now I'm thinking, I probably should have checked with you. I'm really sorry if I overstepped there. Can we, I just want to clarify questions like this. Do you want me to handle them? Do you want, shall I come? Can we just come to you together with the people and make that conversation? And just keep the communication going so that you're continually clarifying the lines of communication and responsibility.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think, Claire, what you're touching on too is just a really important point to just like, I don't know, nail in, hammer in I don't know the phrase I'm looking for. But this idea that just because a mistake happens or an overstep happens doesn't mean the relationship is ruined or the project is ruined or any of that, that there actually is a very normal part of figuring out any collaborative relationship. Relationship, especially in a brand new position like an intimacy role that has doesn't have decades and decades of history underneath it, as far as people learning how to work with this role. And that saying, hey, I think I overstepped there. Let me can we go back and redo this? Or what system can we put in place so that in the next scene, in the next, you know, sh episode, we can can handle this differently and better. And that type of apology, ownership, repair, and plan for going forward can be so almost like more trust-inducing than you know, just hoping that no one saw it and kind of moving on. And I think that that ability to repair and to own that, you know, and forgive overstepping for yourself can actually be a very powerful tool in continuing collaborative relationships.
SPEAKER_03Definitely. And I think people, there's an expectation, both I think, from intimacy professionals, but also from the rest of the industry, that we have to have all the answers. And actually, what we're experts in is facilitating finding an answer. And so you are actually being as much support and help, if not more, when someone comes to your question with like, I don't know. Do you want to come with me to the first AD and we'll check? Or I'll ask the first AD and I'll get back to you. Because you're helping to teach them what the role is, and you're still getting them that answer, but in a professionally respectful and ethically appropriate way, in terms of what your job is for. And I think I think it can be quite intimidating when you go on to be like, oh, if someone asks me something and I say I don't know, people are going to think I'm not very good at being an intimacy coordinator. And actually, it's quite wonderful when you model that enough, and people see someone saying, I don't know, but I can find out. I don't know, but here's what we'll do to figure it out. Actually, that can spread through a production. And you can see people being more willing to also do that because they see that stuff still gets done and there wasn't a horrific consequence, and I didn't get fired for saying, I don't know. And that can actually bring even more collaboration because it has people thinking about well, who is the best person to answer that? And let's all together figure that out with them.
SPEAKER_00I've definitely tried it both ways and can confirm that this way we're talking about is indeed the more successful approach.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_03Tried and tested by the both of us. 10 out of 10 would recommend.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Yep. All right. Well, then let's let's just close up by kind of summarizing
Three Habits to Keep You From Overstepping
SPEAKER_00just rapid fire. What are like three three simple, quick things an intimacy professional can do when thinking about overstepping and doing their best to not?
SPEAKER_03I think regular check-ins with this is the service I'm here to provide. And a real grounding practice before you even go in. I think if you can ground yourself in your value and what you know so far, I know what I know and what I don't know, I'll help figure out. Like that, I think is the great a great way to go on to set or into the rehearsal room with so that you are in a calm place and less likely to react from a want-a-need or an insecurity. I would say, really, like taking that moment when the question comes and like doing a quick kind of critical analysis on it. Okay, who who is involved in this subject, this question? What's the what's the definite fact I got from them? And where's the gap? Right? So it's so easy to go, yeah, we did have a conversation. I think we said that. I'll just say that like it's fact. Because here's the thing we have a lot of power. And when we say something confidently, people will take it as fact. I do that a lot. Also, this accent makes people believe everything I say. So I have to be really careful about it. So, so really like critically analyzing who is involved in this question, this conversation, and have they all been consulted? And if not, let's bring them in. And number three, practice. I don't know. Let's figure it out. Or I don't know, but I think I think I know someone who does. And practice that in your daily life, right? Eve even in like the silly thing. What's you know, what's what's for dinner? I don't know. But here's the thing. Let's figure it out together. Which way, which which is the best subway to take? I don't know, but let me check the map and we'll see what Google Maps says. You know, like practice being in empowered in I don't know. Just because you don't know doesn't mean you can't know and doesn't mean you're not brilliant.
SPEAKER_00I love that. I actually wonder if that's like a fun challenge to do this week is to try to say I don't know at least once every day this week and then see how that feels.
SPEAKER_03I love that. Do it. Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_00All right. Well, on that note, I think we're about wrapped up here, Claire. It was so wonderful getting to chat with you about how to make this profession be the most it can possibly be and help ourselves in our careers and help others in their work to create the best intimate moments on stage and on screen we possibly can.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I love that. And I love being willing to be seen learning. Like that's what we're doing. Like everybody learn from our mistakes, learn from what we're figuring out, be human, and then you'll be a much better idea, I see.
SPEAKER_00Well, you heard Claire, folks. Be seen learning this week. And as always, please like, subscribe, share this podcast. We are here offering as much advice and tips to better the profession as possible. And we cannot wait to share more with you as we continue to grow together. See you next time.